The ISFJ and conflict...

I'm definitely interested to hear peoples responses to this thread. I'm still looking for a way to get my wife (ISFJ type 9W1) to deal with conflict. My method is to meet it head on, brainstorm several viable solutions, pick the one that works the best for all involved and resolve the conflict. Her method thus far seems to run and lock herself some room or another, cry, shoot down any and every solution I attempt to present, yell at me for being an insensitive jerk, complain about how she doesn't have time for anything, deny the problem is really a problem, proceed to ignore the problem until it's far too overwhelming for anyone to handle, resolve to fix the problem, become overwhelmed that the problem is too big to handle, run and lock herself in a room, repeat process ad tedium. If anyone know of a way to get her to break the cycle that would be awesome. Unfortunately addressing her issues with conflict only brings up inner conflict which she treats the same way.

Originally Posted by Shadowdust

Obviously, conflict isn't one of my strong suits. It's funny, if I can foresee conflict, I can prepare myself for it and actually do well to hold my own. On the spot though, I become a stuttering mess. I just can't seem to make a coherent thought which makes the opposing party that much more confident in their stance even if they're in the wrong.

I'd rather avoid conflicts whenever I can. Let's face it though, we all have to deal with it eventually. So I'm curious, how do my fellow ISFJs deal with on the spot conflict? Can you manage your thoughts and direct them effectively into actual words? If so, how do you manage?

Not an ISFJ, but, can try to illustrate my approach to dealing with conflict, as an INTP. Even when physical distance is not possible, mental distance sometimes is an available option. I suppose the steps I go through would look something like this:

1. Deep breath. Remind myself that this will take patience and work. (Like putting together a new bookcase that just came out of the box. I HATE putting together furniture.)

2. Conversation pause: I need to stop talking. Sometimes this means inserting a somewhat meaningless comment and asking someone to repeat their point of view, as time filler and to seek further insight. Something like, "I can see that this matter is important to you and I'm sure we will be able to resolve the situation. If you wouldn't mind, please tell me again how you see this. I may have missed something." What is gained is a stall (just a small eddy in the flow of the discussion, in which to ruminate), a degree of reassurance for the other party and a possibility of more detail emerging on the others point of view.

3. While still listening lightly, maintaining eye contact and nodding, in the back of my mind I ask myself to define the problem. I believe that So and so wants this and I want this, we do not agree.

4. Probe the situation and my understanding of it: Is this really what I want? Is this really what so and so wants? Is it possible that this is a communication failure and we are not accurately understanding each others wants? Is it possible there are underlying unexpressed wants at play that need to be brought to light? When exactly in the conversation did the progress grind to a halt? Whose fault do I think that is? Why? Could I be wrong? Is there a pattern to our communication habits? Do we disagree often? What is the quality of our relationship? Is it possible the cause of our disagreement reaches back to earlier incidents/encounters?

5. The answers to the mental questions you pose to yourself will branch and generate other questions, leading down a path (hopefully) to possible solutions and courses of action. The trick is to, whenever needed, come up with questions that will be inoffensive and will keep the other party talking. To keep that going insert comments like, "Thank you. That helps me see your perspective on that. Could you also please share with me what you think about this detail/facet/possible outcome?" While the other party talks again, keep analyzing and listening.

By asking for more information you have gently taken control of the conversation and you are not necessarily "avoiding conflict", nor are you escalating conflict, you are creating the "eddy" in the flow where you can think and process. Eddys are critically important in reaching understanding and solutions.

Anyway, it goes something like that for me, I think. BTW, I don't mean to make it sound as though it is an easy process. It is always a challenge, no matter what one's type is. Good luck!

Originally Posted by affezwilling

I'm definitely interested to hear peoples responses to this thread. I'm still looking for a way to get my wife (ISFJ type 9W1) to deal with conflict. My method is to meet it head on, brainstorm several viable solutions, pick the one that works the best for all involved and resolve the conflict. Her method thus far seems to run and lock herself some room or another, cry, shoot down any and every solution I attempt to present, yell at me for being an insensitive jerk, complain about how she doesn't have time for anything, deny the problem is really a problem, proceed to ignore the problem until it's far too overwhelming for anyone to handle, resolve to fix the problem, become overwhelmed that the problem is too big to handle, run and lock herself in a room, repeat process ad tedium. If anyone know of a way to get her to break the cycle that would be awesome. Unfortunately addressing her issues with conflict only brings up inner conflict which she treats the same way.

Honestly, counseling helped with my communication and helping cut down on the fights I used to have with my ex-wife. I wasn't identical to your wife but I did have similarities as far as getting defensive. One thing that our therapist helped with was how we address the situation. Both of us had the habit of using the word "you" too much. "You" can be imply accusation to some. That was the case for both of us. She suggested we try words like "I feel." By doing that, it no longer felt like I was being jumped on and neither did she. We were taking ownership of our statements and making it less of a concrete fact and more of a "this is how I feel" kind of thing. You may have already tried this but if not, give it a try. It really can work wonders adjusting the way we communicate with each other.

@See Above I thank you for your suggestions. I know that my toughest thing to work through can be looking beyond the surface of the situation. Probing and understanding what's going on is incredibly important, I can definitely agree with that. It's definitely the biggest part of your suggestions that I need to work on. Thank you so much for your input!

I feel isolated from certain other types often (especially ISFJs) because i get the impression that they have no desire to, or even a distain for fixing something (a conflict situation for example). I think it is because they don't see it as being, in itself, a problem. It is merely a situational channel to vent and dissipate feelings and to receive a certain response because they are displaying these feelings. They get confused and angered when i try to address the problems they're telling me about because once angered, they can give no thought to who or what is right or wrong, because that's not what they're thinking about because they've already come to the (hasty) conclusion that they are already right. When i try to point out fallacies or even just defend myself against a tirade, it seems confusing that i even resisted the absolute truth of my guilt. And i'm a pretty steadfast guy, (though very calm, i never yell) i continue explaining until she has forgotten what the fight was about and is just annoyed that i'm still talking about it.

I hope I don't sound like I'm just being repetitive but for an ISFJ, there's a priority on the feeling side. I think that once we can get through our feelings, then we can address whatever problems we're dealing with. Have you tried just focusing on her feelings first and letting her vent those along with validation before addressing the problem? Whether she is right or wrong in how she views the problem, her feelings aren't quite that black and white. Sometimes a little validation is enough to calm down and then really start looking at the situation objectively.

Originally Posted by Shadowdust

I hope I don't sound like I'm just being repetitive but for an ISFJ, there's a priority on the feeling side. I think that once we can get through our feelings, then we can address whatever problems we're dealing with. Have you tried just focusing on her feelings first and letting her vent those along with validation before addressing the problem? Whether she is right or wrong in how she views the problem, her feelings aren't quite that black and white. Sometimes a little validation is enough to calm down and then really start looking at the situation objectively.

Well that does sound reasonable and is something i will definitely try. Emotional assuaging with simultaneous logic reasoning... Sounds like quite a mental juggling act (at least for me).

Thanks for all of the advice and insight.

No problem. :) I hope the suggestions help. I know it really isn't easy but it's really cool that you're so willing to try a different approach. Perhaps when your girlfriend sees how you're trying different methods to resolve conflict, maybe she will ease up and meet you half way. :)

Originally Posted by Shadowdust

What happens when I'm put on the spot is that my emotions take control of the conflict. I can't think straight because all I can do is feel the frustration, anger, etc. of what I am perceiving as an attack. If panic is what I'm feeling, I have difficulty sticking to my values and just let them believe they are right. It doesn't happen as often as it used to but I catch this being one of my avoidance tactics on conflict. One of my personal growth goals is that I can learn to take a healthier approach to conflict. Mostly that I can ground myself, not letting my negative emotions take over. This is becoming an increasingly important issue for me as I take on new responsibilities in my job where there can be quite a few volatile people inside and outside of the company. :)

I think one of the things that helps the most (particularly when dealing with NTs) is to not take things personally. I think very often ISFJs tend to attach a lot of things to ourselves as people...if someone attacks a belief we have, an opinion we have, an idea we have, a thought we have, a solution we have, a problem we have...a lot of times we feel like the other person is attacking us a person. I think most of the time, when we find out what they think, they didn't think that at all...they're just trying to solve a problem. However, they assume that we know they're not attacking us, and we assume they are attacking us and that they know it. This leads us to feeling hurt and angry, and they don't know why....so we come off as crazy to them, even though the whole thing is one big miscommunication.

It's down to our inferior Ne, I think....we tend to try to figure things out without enough information, and we often make false assumptions.


So I think one of the things that helps the most is only to feel strongly about something if you have evidence for it. Keep yourself calm and don't let your imagination run away from you. Don't let a natural tendency to feel anger or hurt dictate your actions. Try to look at a situation based only on the facts instead of what it seems like is happening in your head. But if you rely on what you know is true, it lets you use your Si to the best of your ability and make good decisions.

Originally Posted by AnotherMessiah

i am an intp and currently going through a divorce with my isfj wife of ten years. i understand the "getting along very well" thing in the beginning, since isfjs are so helpful and want to make people happy (often to their own detriment), and intps are so relaxed and just kind of let it happen. what i'm really taking away from my experience though is that being around S types for too long really drains me. i dont think an isfj is really going to love you for who you are as a person (lofty thinking, theoretical, philosophical, maybe a little quirky, willing to think outside of boxes, the things you value about yourself) its more just that they have a drive to love/help/provide for anyone in their vicinity, and you happen to be there. isfjs need stability and tradition and this only makes an intp, or any nt, feel trapped in what they are allowed to think/talk about.

Well, I think this depends upon the exact situation. I don't think it's impossible for an ISFJ to have strong personal feelings for an NT...we don't just automatically try to help them just for the sake of helping them. We do feel strong emotions for certain people, and that person might be an NT. There are differences between ISFJs and INTPs for sure, but that doesn't mean they can't feel strongly for one another, even thought this may be the case in certain situations.

Originally Posted by Sevchenko

I'm an INTP and my girlfriend is an ISFJ. Read into that as much as you'd like, but we get along very well. Our only incompatibility is conflict. When i need to analyze a situation in any intensity (be it casual, like INTPs do, or because i'm trying to structure a fight we're having) she insists on taking everything as a personal slight against her. She will then lock down and just become angry and stubborn, completely disregarding reason. I know i need to be 'type' sensitive and to relate to her emotion and show mine, but if i am right (even about something simple) and it is obvious and i've lead her to the conclusion logically multiple times, she'll essentially ignore what i said and rage again about something i just explained.

I need a way to circumvent these issues. I'm very able to admit when i'm wrong, but when i'm not, i refuse to hedge or be bullied. I would very much appreciate the guiding hand of an experienced and honest ISFJ or even INTP. This is but one problem in my relationship, but it bothers me to the point that i made an account here to seek advice.

Originally Posted by Sevchenko

That is probably the case with her and i. When i get into a discussion concerning details, facts, objects, etc; i always try to resolve that in the most logical way paying, i am ashamed to admit, a fairly small amount of attention to any sort of subjective feelings. I suppose my error is thinking that it is the events or facts themselves that are the issue to be examined and tuned. Rather, i should be trying to analyze and diffuse the emotions connected with them (which may sound like a trivial epiphany in an ISFJ forum, but i, through my own limitations, see conflict naturally as an objective exercise and an equation to be corrected; my Ti-Ne completely suppressing my inferior Fe.)

I don't suppose you can really identify with me on that level, but have you ever had conflicts with xNTx's? If you have, how do you attempt to deal with them? Maybe i can reverse engineer a good method from you.

I think this is definitely a part of this. One big thing with ISFJs is for us to feel loved, appreciated, and valued. When someone else is trying to solve problems in our lives, even though that may be their way of helping us or showing that they love us, it often feels like an attack because it feels like someone is trying to "fix" us, or show us that there's something wrong with us. I think we want to know that we have something to offer other people, and we want to be able to feel good about our thoughts and opinions. So we when see a lot of modifications to what we think, we take it as someone seeing there's something wrong with us, and it feels like a rejection of who we are. We feel like we're being proven wrong and that our input isn't being valued.


So I think it's helpful to avoid making a situation into a "right vs. wrong". Instead of being a competition, it's better if it's a collaboration. Affirmation is really important to ISFJs...knowing that what we think has positive merit, and that there's something good about what we think. I think if we're able to start off with that positive, it makes us relax and feel at ease. Then, we're a lot more likely to analyze where we're wrong, and be a lot more comfortable changing our minds. We won't feel threatened...we won't feel like someone is trying to prove us wrong, and it won't lower our confidence. We'll know they're on our side, not against us.


It's a lot of these little details that I think NTs pass over because they often have no personal use for them. All they see is a problem to be solved, and I don't think they usually feel a lot of the same emotional turmoil that an ISFJ does. Some of this is Si related, which I'll get to in a bit.

Originally Posted by Sevchenko

I feel isolated from certain other types often (especially ISFJs) because i get the impression that they have no desire to, or even a distain for fixing something (a conflict situation for example). I think it is because they don't see it as being, in itself, a problem. It is merely a situational channel to vent and dissipate feelings and to receive a certain response because they are displaying these feelings. They get confused and angered when i try to address the problems they're telling me about because once angered, they can give no thought to who or what is right or wrong, because that's not what they're thinking about because they've already come to the (hasty) conclusion that they are already right. When i try to point out fallacies or even just defend myself against a tirade, it seems confusing that i even resisted the absolute truth of my guilt. And i'm a pretty steadfast guy, (though very calm, i never yell) i continue explaining until she has forgotten what the fight was about and is just annoyed that i'm still talking about it.

I've seen this pop up a lot in other threads involving INTPs. It's really an Ne vs. Si situation, with some T and F mixed in.


The thing with ISFJs is....our dominant Si makes us want to prefer to keep things the same. We crave consistency, and making changes is usually very tough for us. What we really want is stability and reassurance, and then we want to be able to go at something full steam, going very deep and latching on. We want to know something is rooted deeply in place, and then we're going to put 100% of our effort into it.


But if we're afraid that something is going to be constantly changing, we're not going to feel security with it, and we'll become extremely unsettled.


So often, when we're faced with a situation that's not optimal, we often prefer to keep it that way instead of dealing with the change. Making the chance is often more stressful and gives us more anxiety than sticking with the known...even if we're not completely happy with the known.

Now, whether or not this is ok depends on the situation. Certainly there are times when things get so bad that it really is necessary to make a change. And there are times when we really do need to be pushed into making that change.


But I think often we prefer to just keep on pushing along with something. Now, we often may want to vent and blow off steam about a situation because it's not perfect, and some of these outbursts may be pretty strong. But, I think once we get it out of our system, we feel a lot better, and then we have no problem continuing to deal with the issue.


But I know to NTs, especially NTPs, they see this as insanity, because when they see our vent sessions, they see us as being unhappy, and they see us as complaining about something and not ever doing anything to change it. And this strikes them as very stupid...they basically see it as whining about a problem but never making any effort to improve the situation.

As I said, in some cases this is true...there are times when we really do need to find a way to make our situation better.


But I think one big problem is...it's very stressful for us to try things that don't work. I think P types, especially NPs, like trying out a bunch of things, because it's so easy for them to move on. If something doesn't work, they just bounce on to the next thing. But for ISJs, it's so stressful for us to put so much work into making a change, only to find out it was a waste of time and energy. This sticks with us, and we wish so badly we hadn't tried making the change at all. This is so much worse than just sticking with the non-optimal original situation.

I think this link really explains this Si/Ne dynamic in ISFJs very well:

Recognizing the Inferior Function in ISFJ



So as I mentioned before, I think it's helpful if you focus on the positive before pointing out the problems. ISFJs can make changes, but we have to do it slowly and one step at a time. You have to be patient with us...a lot of times we have to reach the conclusion ourselves, we can't have it pushed on us. If we do, then we're going to get hurt, lash out, and stubbornly block out everything else you say. But if you show us support and gently guide us along, we'll probably see the truth and go at it wholeheartedly.




But it's really hard for me to talk about all of this without a concrete example. These are just my general thoughts.

Originally Posted by affezwilling

I'm definitely interested to hear peoples responses to this thread. I'm still looking for a way to get my wife (ISFJ type 9W1) to deal with conflict. My method is to meet it head on, brainstorm several viable solutions, pick the one that works the best for all involved and resolve the conflict. Her method thus far seems to run and lock herself some room or another, cry, shoot down any and every solution I attempt to present, yell at me for being an insensitive jerk, complain about how she doesn't have time for anything, deny the problem is really a problem, proceed to ignore the problem until it's far too overwhelming for anyone to handle, resolve to fix the problem, become overwhelmed that the problem is too big to handle, run and lock herself in a room, repeat process ad tedium. If anyone know of a way to get her to break the cycle that would be awesome. Unfortunately addressing her issues with conflict only brings up inner conflict which she treats the same way.

Kind of like I mentioned to Sevchenko, I think she may be taking your problem solving strategy as an attack on her and what she's comfortable with. It might help that instead of quickly trying to tackle the issue, to ask her what she thinks, and just listen without offering any input. Keep on listening and just asking her what she thinks...guide her along and help her understand what she truly thinks about the situation. Let her get all of her thoughts and opinions out without interrupting them, or finding problems in them.

Also, ask her what she thinks would be a solution. Let her think about some things that would help.

Then, after she's done all of this...try to find the things you agree with and can support her on first. Show that you value her input and find the things that you think are helpful. If she feels that support, she'll know you're not out to get her, or not out to tear her down...again, it's not about competition, but collaboration. It'll let her know you're not trying to attack her, but trying to help her.


Then, hopefully she'll be more relaxed, and you can ease into offering your own input and offering your own solutions. But you may have to go back and let her know and remind her that this doesn't mean that you're trying to put her down or attack her...you may have to constantly show that you support her.


I know NTs really hate repetition, especially of emotional things. They often feel that certain things should be obvious without them having to be said. But I think there are lot of things that ISFJs have to constantly have repeated to us to make us feel content and safe....again, this boils down to Si. We want to know that things havent' changed and that they're ok.


So I think it's this kind of emotional support for her that may be missing in the situation. Even in your post I didn't see much of that...you seem to want to be jumping directly ahead to tackling the problem while skipping all of the support she might need. And that just leads to the situation exploding rather than taking the first step towards a solution.

Originally Posted by affezwilling

I'm definitely interested to hear peoples responses to this thread. I'm still looking for a way to get my wife (ISFJ type 9W1) to deal with conflict. My method is to meet it head on, brainstorm several viable solutions, pick the one that works the best for all involved and resolve the conflict. Her method thus far seems to run and lock herself some room or another, cry, shoot down any and every solution I attempt to present, yell at me for being an insensitive jerk, complain about how she doesn't have time for anything, deny the problem is really a problem, proceed to ignore the problem until it's far too overwhelming for anyone to handle, resolve to fix the problem, become overwhelmed that the problem is too big to handle, run and lock herself in a room, repeat process ad tedium. If anyone know of a way to get her to break the cycle that would be awesome. Unfortunately addressing her issues with conflict only brings up inner conflict which she treats the same way.

chances are shes aware of the problem but realizes she cannot handle the problem or the process required to solve it and beats herself up over it. Then you go and verbally remind her of the problem and she is reminded she is inadequate and useless. You likely raise your voice over it and she is mad at herself and you for blaming her for the problem (despite whether or not you intended to). I dont like conflict and i had one today with my husband. He not only doesnt care if im hurt or sad about something he literally said "why do you have to cry now, cant we discuss this without you crying?" and the answer is no... we cant, because when he talks and especially when he says things like that it reminds me of how little he cares and the lack of empathy seems almost sociopathic. ISFJs need time alone to reflect... so you seeing her as fleeing from the problem is really her trying to survive it and run the situation over and over in her mind to find a solution and relieve the pressure of the emotion that is consuming her. This emotion has to come out and her only other option would to unfairly attack you with it. Be happy that she loves you.

Originally Posted by Mendi the ISFJ

chances are shes aware of the problem but realizes she cannot handle the problem or the process required to solve it and beats herself up over it. Then you go and verbally remind her of the problem and she is reminded she is inadequate and useless. You likely raise your voice over it and she is mad at herself and you for blaming her for the problem (despite whether or not you intended to). I dont like conflict and i had one today with my husband. He not only doesnt care if im hurt or sad about something he literally said "why do you have to cry now, cant we discuss this without you crying?" and the answer is no... we cant, because when he talks and especially when he says things like that it reminds me of how little he cares and the lack of empathy seems almost sociopathic. ISFJs need time alone to reflect... so you seeing her as fleeing from the problem is really her trying to survive it and run the situation over and over in her mind to find a solution and relieve the pressure of the emotion that is consuming her. This emotion has to come out and her only other option would to unfairly attack you with it. Be happy that she loves you.

While it is a regrettable reaction to emotion in a crisis; anyone with a dominating T function (such as myself) will be very confused and frustrated by emotion when in conflict. I will sound blunt here, but i do wish to be honest: emotion within a conflict seems counter productive to us. Our T functions take over and, for me, will suppress my Fe and my mind races with a Ti-Ne axis hell bent on finding an answer. It will, rightfully so, seems cold to Fs of any kind. I only say this to help you understand us a little bit better. We (generally speaking of course) do not mean anything personal by not addressing your emotional state, and it certainly doesn't mean that we don't care about it. From an INTP perspective, i see your emotion and think about what is causing it, not the emotion itself. I want to attack it at it's root.